I was requested by Harold Foster to make this letter publically available to all members on the website.  This is a direct copy of the document.   An original copy is available upon request.

- Wayne

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120 GREEN POINT CIRCLE ~ Palm Beach Gardens, Florida 33418-8040

Phone (561) 627-0002 ~ Fax (561) 627-4220 ~ Email haroldf@comcast.net

September 8^th, 2007

RC Bush Pilots Board of Officers

Kindly post this letter on our web site so that members in good standing can attend the next meeting too vote on this motion.

I will make a motion at the next meeting regarding the board’s unilateral decision to charge for food to members in good standing at events held at the field.

When the club purchases food out of its treasury for an event at the field the board does not have the authority to charge members for food without first bringing a motion to the floor at a meeting and having it voted on.

This board is clearly not following “Roberts Rules and Regulations”.

In the past we have voted on whether to charge Non Member Guests for food that was served at the field when we held events and it was voted down at every occasion.

This board has no authority to make these decisions.

 I want to remind the board that it carries out the voted motions of the members at all times.

I also want to remind Mr. Boots, that his remarks where uncalled for. It’s not the price for food being charged, he and others had no authority to spend clubs money and charge members for food that was purchased with clubs dues money.

 Respectfully submitted,

Harold Foster

 2007 member in good standing

First, I would like to say that the opinions expressed in this response are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the board or other members.  I do not wish to speak on behalf of anyone except myself; however, I encourage others to offer their thoughts and insight in discussion here and more importantly at next month’s meeting or any other meeting.  Second, I will state that none of my responses should be deemed as a personal attack or disrespect towards Harold or any other member.  I am simply responding to written statements as my personal actions (being part of the board) are implicated.  In regards to Harold, while I may not always agree with him, I respect and value his opinions and prior service to the club.

This forum is specifically for club related discussion.  I see no reason why we should withhold such discussion here, however with that in mind, please voice your opinions, but keep it civil and respectful.  It should be further stated that the ultimate venue for discussion should be the monthly meetings.  If you wish for your voice to be heard and counted, please participate in your club’s monthly meetings. 

Harold, before offering my opinion I’d like to specifically comment on items within your letter addressed to the club. 

You wrote:

“When the club purchases food out of its treasury for an event at the field the board does not have the authority to charge members for food without first bringing a motion to the floor at a meeting and having it voted on.

This board is clearly not following “Roberts Rules and Regulations”.”

I’m unclear as to how you’re arriving at this conclusion.  The combat events (in addition to other events such as the Fun FIy) have been discussed, debated and ultimately voted on (approved) at numerous monthly club meetings.  The approved meeting notes from 1/18/07, 4/2/07 and 5/7/07 demonstrate this outcome – specifically for the April and September combat events.  I would note that attendance records from all of these meetings do not indicate your presence. 

If you have specific evidence as to how the board has acted without consent, vote and/or authority of the club without having been personally present at the meetings of which these matters were discussed, I encourage you to clarify and substantiate your statements before making broad accusations. 

You wrote:

“I also want to remind Mr. Boots, that his remarks where uncalled for. It’s not the price for food being charged, he and others had no authority to spend clubs money and charge members for food that was purchased with clubs dues money.”

Harold, I hope we can all agree that Brian’s remarks were not the only ones that were “uncalled for” (mine included).   The remarks given and the discussions that ensued were the direct response and reaction to two specific events.

1. Your repeated remarks and comments to me and other club members that the situation (i.e. the charging of food and beverages”) was – this is a quote -- “complete b***s***”.  

2.  Your indignant actions to further prove your point and disapproval, in front of numerous club members and spectators, by helping yourself to concessions without paying for them. 

My personal thoughts based on the above and various club member statements:

In my opinion, none of the above should have happened. This was as an event aimed at club participation and fun.  Who wants to be called aside and addressed in such a manner?  Not me.  We’re all adults.   If someone has a problem with the way something is handled, let’s discuss it at the next meeting without the attitude and foul language; which goes for all members including the board.  At a certain point it was clear (to me) everyone knew how you felt.  There really was no reason to continue the discussion ad nauseum.   The subject was just not dropped and personally, the whole thing put a real dent on what should have been a relaxing and fun day with fellow flyers and friends.

The combat events have never been solely “club member only” events in such that these events were targeted only to members of RC Bush Pilots.  The combat events are officially sanctioned RCCA (http://www.rccombat.com/) events hosted by RC Bush Pilots. The combat events have always been (in my understanding) targeted to attract out of area participants, regional awareness, local spectatorship and as a means of club fundraising through actions such as raffles and food concessions in conjunction with the obvious (fun, club member participation, camaraderie, etc).  If the club wishes to provide free food to all club members and non-members (as stated in your letter) regardless of the situation or event, that’s fine and let’s get a vote on it, however at the time this event was not conducted nor intended as such.

In my mind, this whole situation really brings about the larger questions of, at what point should the club charge for anything above basic dues and further, what exactly is the club treasury for?  It’s a slippery slope.  Our membership dues are only $25 a year which in many cases includes entire families. Why have memberships been kept so low?  I believe this is done to justify membership benefits and encourage broad membership to what is otherwise a free and open facility to the community.  Do I think we should close the field to the public and go entirely private?  Absolutely not and this for a variety of reasons which I think are beyond the scope of this discussion.   As it stands the membership dues are low and for that reason I feel (as do others) the club cannot afford to provide free concessions at each and every club hosted event for all members who do not wish to participate.   There are two very  important points there.  A hosted event is different than one intended for all club members like a Fun Fly and any club member who participated, regardless of task, was appropriately included in the lunch “benefits”.  Participation goes well beyond flying combat planes… judges, cooks, members serving food or selling raffle tickets, every single person that in some way helped out in the event was included.  

I’ll do my best at the next club meeting to justify the per member cost of the club expenditures and how they relate to the current dues charged.  I think we can easily demonstrate that membership dues need to be somewhat raised regardless of any event situation, but substantial increases (perhaps doubling or tripling) are in order if we wish to support all events entirely free.  I feel that substantially higher member dues would effectively kill overall club membership without providing far greater and substantial club benefits beyond that of a handful of yearly events.

I don’t think the clubs treasury, until it exceeds a settled upon value, should be viewed as anything but an emergency fund.  It’s naive and short sighted to think the club will always have a place at its current physical location.  We’re literally one major incident away (think of a plane diving head on into oncoming Turnpike traffic or other public areas of the park) from losing our home.  I can’t understand how it could be thought otherwise in today’s litigious society we live in.  County support or not, we’re in a fringe hobby and when push comes to shove the community at large would rather see a soccer, baseball, football field or putting green in place of our noisy and dangerous “toys”.  If it comes down to it, who are the local politicians going to support?  A 75 member club (or 500 member for that matter) or the screaming public and media reports should some unfortunate incident at the park occur?  Don’t think it can’t happen… 

$10,000 dollars won’t buy us a field, nor will it make lease payments (for long) on one.  It does however buy us hope in that we could find a willing property owner who would allow us land use and emergency funds could be allocated to field structures (tables, shades, etc) and things such as a textile runway.  This very situation (relocation of a field due to land loss) just occurred to a club and is highlighted in this month’s AMA magazine.  Out of the question?  Possibly, but without substantial emergency funds set aside we don’t even have a chance.  

Thank you for taking the time to read this.  I look forward to discussing these and other matters at our next meeting.

Respectfully,

Wayne Lansdowne
2007 RC Bush Pilots Club Secretary

In response to Mr. Foster's letter I will start by saying that I do so with respect for his past service to the club, his contributions to our modeling community, and in deference to his advanced years.

As Contest Director of our AMA sanctioned Combat Contests I have deliberately separated myself from involvement with the club's dispensation of any raffle or concessions in order to remain focused on the competition aspect of the event.

As a club member in good standing, I have attended the planning and preparation meetings held monthly prior to each and every one of the four contests we have hosted to date. To the best of my recollection it was decided by majority club vote at the first of those meetings after discusion and the proper proceedure according to Robert's Rules of Order that "free" lunch would be provided to two groups of people:

1. Competing pilots, who paid as much as $30 each to enter, which is more the the annual dues for membership, by the way. What good host doesn't offer lunch to a guest (especially when they have more than just paid for it)?

2. Volunteer WORKERS - the people from not only our own club but neighboring clubs and from out of town who gave of their time and effort to HELP THIS CLUB BY PARTICIPATING!  They did everything from standing out in the hot sun with the pilots all day to selling raffle tickets, working the PA, and bending over a hot grill cooking. They selflessly gave of their own time and money to go buy the food and supplies (gas 'aint free unlike the lunch you apparently feel entitled to). They were there from start to finish and WORKED in some cases for weeks (months) prior to the event coordinating and executing the planning and preparation for this event.

You may have heard it said that in this life there's no such thing as a "free" lunch, and in this case I am inclined to agree. The people we gave that "free" lunch to bloody well earned it!

Those "members" who take no interest whatsoever in the event(s) our club is hosting and will continue to host, who do not attend meetings and PARTICIPATE BY CONTRIBUTION AND BY BEING INVOLVED, who show up with a hand full of "gimmee" and a mouth full of "much oblidge" should be ashamed of themselves. While the rest of us are scurrying around like ants working towards a common goal, what exactly did you offer to do to help?

Since (fortunately) I was not witness to the reported behavior surrounding this untimely incident that involved angry words, abusive speach, and rude conduct, I am not presuming to speak to anything or anyone not directly involved in or in support of this specific letter. If the shoe fits, wear it. Lord knows, I'm as guilty as the next guy of bad manners, and I stand to be corrected when I'm out of line.

The following responses are my personal opinions and the facts of the matter to the best of my understanding. 

Mr. Foster wrote;

"I will make a motion at the next meeting regarding the board’s unilateral decision to charge for food to members in good standing at events held at the field".

I believe this statement to be uninformed and entirely incorrect. The board made no such unilateral descision, it was discussed and voted on in open meetings before each contest and precedent established from day one that pilots and volunteers get lunch, all others pay a small donation to the club to help the event break even. If you had attended those meetings, you would know that, and had your chance to offer input and cast a vote.

Mr. Foster wrote;

"When the club purchases food out of its treasury for an event at the field the board does not have the authority to charge members for food without first bringing a motion to the floor at a meeting and having it voted on".

Same response as above. The board, acting on behalf of the club after having voted on the matter in open meetings, has every right charge members (and non-members) who do nothing to help out for the food which, in your own words, was "purchased for an event".  An event that needs to pay for itself. An event that is not paid for out of the club's treasury, far from it! It is paid for with the entry fees and by the HARD WORKING VOLUNTEERS who stepped up when their club asked them to.

This is one of the few opportunities we have to show a little profit to bolster the tiny membership dues we pay. We don't expect everyone to volunteer and some simply aren't physically able to or have no desire to help. That's fine, all that is asked is that if they want to sample the fruit of everyone else's labor, the very least they can do is pony up a few bucks to show their support for the club.

Mr. Foster wrote;

This board is clearly not following “Roberts Rules and Regulations”.

Would you care to dig yourself in a little deeper and elaborate on the exact date and time of the meetings at which you were not in attendance when the board did not follow Roberts Rules of Order?

Mr. Foster wrote;

"In the past we have voted on whether to charge Non Member Guests for food that was served at the field when we held events and it was voted down at every occasion".

May I respectfully suggest that you stop living in the past and get with the program? All events held at our field are not created equal. The Combat Contests have expenses to be covered in order to be feasable and therefore the club VOTED to charge a few measly bucks for lunch to the people who do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help their club run this specific event by at least offering to volunteer or help in whatever capacity they are able.

We just held a fun fly which was designed to reward members by throwing out a free lunch and paying for prizes to the pilots who risked their airplanes by flying them in the events. Didn't you get your free lunch that day? You were entitled to one then, but not at the combat contest unless you work for it.

This club puts on the feed bag once a year by underwriting part of the tab for members at a Christmas dinner. You are entitled to a "free lunch" then if you so desire.

We plan another fun fly in Nov. and I have heard talk of a "member apreciation day" event at the field when "free lunch" would be the norm.

Perhaps you would like to volunteer to do the work involved with the planning, preparation, shopping, driving, printing, publishing, copying, talking, attending meetings, cooking, serving, setting up, tearing down, etc. etc. etc. for one of these club functions at the field? How would you feel after you did all that if I showed up, did nothing to help, and then abusively demanded my fair share in return for the whopping $25 dues I pay to call myself a member?

I call attention to the fact that you have been actively involved with club functions as a former officer and did a great job of coordinating and executing the annual members dinner in the past. You of all people should appreciate the kind of work it takes to put on these events.

The simple fact of the matter is that some club functions are specifically for the benefit of members while other events, such as AMA sanctioned competitions are not and rightly so. You are remiss not to be aware of and in accord with this obvious state of affairs.

 Mr. Foster wrote;

"This board has no authority to make these decisions".

" I want to remind the board that it carries out the voted motions of the members at all times".

"I also want to remind Mr. Boots, that his remarks where uncalled for. It’s not the price for food being charged, he and others had no authority to spend clubs money and charge members for food that was purchased with clubs dues money".

Sounds like more of the same disgruntled member "where's my hot dog for past service" yada yada to me.  They say the the first sign of senility is memory loss. I forget what the second was.

Personally, I think the kind of "where's mine" entitlement mentality you have displayed to be selfish, inconsiderate, rude, and unfortunately a sign of our times. I have always thought you to be a man of character, so it will not surprise me if after having time to reflect on the utter triviality of the incident you have chosen to publicly make an issue of, you gain a different perspective  and look forward to hearing from you as your friend.

At the very least I think you owe the board and Mr. Brian Boots, since you single him out by name and in writing, a private apology.  What the hell, why not do it right and put it in writing for the whole club to read like this rather slanderous diatribe?

 Chris Handegard

As Wayne already expressed I don't mean any disrespect to Harold or his service to RC Bushpilots. I was not party to the exchange about "free" meals for club members.

Holding Combat events has been voted on ,and approved by the club. These events are viewed as fund raisers for the club. The point of free meals is to thank the pilots and club volunteers who participate to make the event successful. This is only a small thank you considering the hours and effort that the same dedicated people put forth each contest.

There are several Club thank you events that have been held including the annual membership dinner at Crazy Buffet and the recent Fire cracker fun fly, were all club members were fed and prizes were provided by the club for the events.

In a business perspective if we operate in a spend thrift attitude we will not last long. Wayne stated it best that we should consider our position as one unfortunate event from finding a new home. Just  talk to any Palm Beach Skyhawks member and you will know that this is a reality.

I am embarrassed that I have to respond to such accusations of not following proper rules for setting event policy. If there was a vote required to set the price of a hamburger.  At what end we would have any authority to run these events. Could these events events even be possible?

I seem to think that by being voted in to positions of authority, The club officers have to make decisions in the best interests of the club. As a club officer we often ask for membership input at the monthly meetings and we strive to please the membership.  If the Membership is unhappy with the decisions made by the club officers They have the ability to run for office and vote in new officers.

The track record for this board has been pretty good considering we now hold 4 annual events each year and there has a positive cash flow that has allowed us to hold 2 club "thank you" events, build a new fence and put us in a position to make other field improvements.

Harold the bottom line is your comments and negativity are uncalled for.  And for what A $2.00 hamburger?

My suggestion to you is. If a free meal is that important Please come out and volunteer some of your time to benefit your club.

A note to all forum users... if your "nickname" isn't immediately apparent to all users, please sign your posts to indicate who you are.

Thanks -

Wayne

 Chris, i dont know what to say.... I (you) couldn't have said it any better....  MAN, i am speechless at the moment. Its incidents like this that makes me not want to be apart of the club. And the sad thing is....its over $3.00 lousy damn dollars!!! I guess now we will have to wait and see what happens at the meeting.  Will they all show up this time???? And as far the rest of the members that are reading this, i encourage you all to please, show your support and join us at the meetings. there are many new things going on that you should be aware of.... but the only way your going to find out is by joining us. 1 hour or so on 1 monday of the month is not that hard to do. it seems like everybody has an excuse as to why they dont show.....well on that note, no show no vote no gripe!!!!! thats how i see it???  until next meeting........

 CHRIS!!!!

     I would first like to start by saying thank you to Wayne, for two reasons. One for taking the time to post

Mr. Fosters letter on the site for him. And two for taking the time and patience to post such A heart felt and

well worded letter.

     I would also like to take the time to thank Chris for the same reason. I could not, nor would I be able to

convey what has already been said. With that said, Wayne and Chris both expressed what I feel about this

unfortunate and unsubstatiated accusation.

     Mr. Foster after all that has been said. I will be the first to say I am sorry if you took offense to me stating

the obvious. I see you have been reading the fourm. So I can assume, that you now know, that at no 

time did we '' the board'' make any decissions on our owen.

     This board is cleary following '' ROBERTS RULES and REGULATIONS''

     You also wrote to remind me, that my remarks where uncalled for. Mr. Foster I due regret that words where

exchanged, '' exchanged in public''. I also regret that so many people had to hear you repeatedly bash the board 

and my self, also with the use of fowel language, with kids and ther parants hanging on every word. Is this the 

type of message we want to send out to possible new club members. Personaly I am embaressed with yours,

and my actions. 

     The bottom line is that this is A hobby. It is for fun and I think we need to remember that. I would like to close 

this letter by saying I have no hard feelings towards you Harold. I hope you can come to the meeting with A open 

mind. I will also come to the meeting with the same mind set. So in closing, I say once again on this public forum

that I am truly sorry, and that goes for all present during said dispute.

     Thank you all that have posted , and if any others would like to post, please due so in A adult like maner.

Much Respect To All

your club pres. r/c bush pilots 

Brian Boots